Black engineering students build community to overcome challenges at CMU

Data from the American Society for Engineering Education shows graduation rates for underrepresented minorities with engineering degrees have not changed over the past decade, despite efforts to boost numbers.

WCMU's Tina Sawyer recently spoke with Justin Spivey and Ameer Hicks, executive board members of the National Society of Black Engineers at Central Michigan University, about how they're trying to help students of color overcome barriers and achieve success in engineering.

INTERVIEW HIGHLIGHTS

Challenges faced by minority student in engineering filed

Differences in engineering programs

This transcript has been edited for clarity and length.

Justin Spivey: Within the engineering field, when you first start off, when you attend the class, typically you're the only black person. I've always been the only black person in my class, it may have been one other that I already knew within those first two years when those are typically when the classes are the hardest, and in order to succeed in the class, it's best to have like a relationship with other people in the class so that you can all study together, work on assignments, just support each other, and succeeding in the classroom.

And also, within the engineering they kind of like to weed out students. So, if you're a black person and you go to a class and you don't know anybody there, you can't connect with anyone. You're the only black person. It's usually hard to succeed in the class because one: the class work is, like, extreme. It's a lot of work to do, a lot of homework. The quizzes, exams are very difficult..

Tina Sawyer: So you would find it easier to connect with other people, so you can study together?

JS: Yeah. So not having that like, support system within the class itself and having people who's also struggling on the problems all working together...it kind of causes you to not be able to succeed and progress in terms of engineering and getting your degree.

TS: Mhmm. Do you find institutionally, they set up roadblocks that way?

JS: Yes.

TS: How does NSBE help students... not just at CMU, but everywhere else?

JS: And everywhere else, there's a lot of group meetings, a lot of like discord servers, a lot of various groups that you can come to. Usually everyone has taken the course that you're struggling in, so you can go in there and say, hey, has anyone taken, for example fluid mechanics or thermodynamics? And typically, someone says ‘ohh yeah, I still have my notes from there. I'm in it right now’ and then you can connect with them on a worldwide level and just have like a huge support system to be able to talk to them and get help for any subject you need to be able to, you know try to pass your course. And just to speak on what we do here. At Central Michigan, just a little. We have study tables. Our current eboard.. we're all seniors, so we've taken a lot of classes that the underclassmen are struggling in like EGR 120, which is the Intro to Engineering or Dynamic Strength and Materials. Courses like that. So whenever one of our underclassmen or one of our general members has a problem, they can come to us at any time. Text us, call us. See us in person be like, hey, they can come to us and get that help that they need for the course, and we can share our notes and, you know, just help them succeed in the course.

TS: You find that you can come together and as a community, do you go out into the general community like the local community as well and outreach that way?

JS: Yes, so. We've noticed that you know our community in terms of black representation here on campus. It has kind of been, not the best. We really want to connect our community, whether you're major STEM, no matter what your major is, we take all majors. So we like to go to those places where students are typically at, like, create a sense of community. We have a lot of fun events for people to. We try to incorporate them into those fun events like we did a tin foil boat building competition. We have NSBE week coming up in which we do an event called fear factor or silent library which people can come and I'm not sure if you've seen the TV shows but.

TS: I've seen fear factor now. What is that? What? What do you make them do?

JS: Yeah. Uh, nothing too crazy. Just make people, uh, put their hand in the box of crickets. But it's just like events like those we really like to host on campus to get everyone in the community together, and we're doing a good job of doing that.

TS: That was Justin Spivey, the president of the CMU chapter of the National Society of Black Engineers at CMU. If you're an underrepresented minority trying to get an engineering degree in the United States, it's already a tough ride. Then add in that Michigan is one of nine states that prohibit engineered technology graduates from becoming licensed professionals right out of. Knowledge. It becomes even more out of reach. However, Amir Hicks, who is the vice president at CMU's chapter of Nesby, tells us that getting licensed depends on what programs you choose.

Ameer Hicks: There's a little bit of a little bit of a difference between someone who's majoring with the concentration and technology and then someone who's majoring within, like the actual technical field of engineering. Someone who's majoring in, let's take mechanical engineering technology. They're taking a lot of hands-on lab courses, meaning that they're more so going to be not learning about the theory behind Y=mx+b B but more so learning how to apply different applications within Y equals MX plus B for a regular Sample versus like an engineering student who's most of our times are in lecture halls. We're taking notes, understanding the theory behind why these formulas equal this, or why they equal certain things. So being with the Michigan and technology thing is saying like once you graduate, you don't have the knowledge that you understand the theory behind a lot of the principles that you're practicing. So it's more so like you have to have further. Education or more information on the topic, I think.

TS: Yeah, yeah, I would imagine that's where NSBE comes in to bridge that gap because it seems very intimidating.

AH: Being the only one in the only black person in your class is pretty hard, but it's even harder when you don't have anyone there that's willing to even try to help you or like try to reach out to say like, hey, do you need help or you know if you go and ask one of your fellow classmates. Hey, can you help me out with this one? It's kind of like a really awkward tension at first. So I think having organization like NSBE here on campus, that has been thriving this year. Actually we have a motto that you know it's not before we looked at it as like, oh, there's only 4% of engineers that are black, we kind of changed that and we say like we are the 4% of engineers, you know like ARE the ones that are making the gap smaller. So I just think organization NSBE and being here on campus is an amazing thing, and that support is what really counts in those first couple of years.

TS: So, have you ever gotten to a point where you get really discouraged and just want to go into a different program?

AH: One thing I always tell myself, especially during like the hard midterm weeks and when I'm feeling low, is ‘he who says he can't and he who says he can't are both usually right’. I think if you're deciding and you have a passion for engineering, I think you should go ahead and do it because it's gonna be hard no matter what. Like, no matter which college degree you choose, it is going to be hard. But once you decide on one, I say go all in for it and find you a good community that is supportive of you and that wants to see you win. It's harder to do it when you are by yourself, and you just stick to what you know. You find you have a good community and a good support system that can guide you... it’s a huge difference. Huge difference. So, I say just lock in! I came in as a freshman...four years ago and it was a very different environment coming in. Feeling intimidation, right? When you walk into the room, it's like it was a very tough environment to kind of fit in at first but as the leadership changed and as we got closer together, we formed a bond amongst each other. That is, we work so well together and communicate effectively. We understand how each other communicates. Everybody has their own respected position, and they fulfill what they must do. We help each other out it. It's just amazing.

TS: Amir Hicks, from CMU's National Society of Black Engineers Hicks, says they are celebrating their 10th year supporting minorities on campus and the engineering program and other programs on campus. They will be celebrating with NSBE week starting April 8th through the 14th. I'm Tina Sawyer, WCMU news.