LEILA FADEL, HOST:
With just two weeks until Election Day, former President Donald Trump has been escalating his attacks on his political rivals and what he calls, quote, "the enemy within," unquote.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Now an NPR investigation has found that Trump has made more than a hundred threats to investigate, prosecute, jail or otherwise punish his perceived opponents, including private citizens.
FADEL: NPR's investigative correspondent, Tom Dreisbach, has been looking into this. Good morning.
TOM DREISBACH, BYLINE: Good morning.
FADEL: So we know former President Trump has talked about, quote, "locking people up" for a long time. What's new about what you found here?
DREISBACH: Right. And, you know, Trump's allies say, come on. This is just campaign rhetoric. The media is overhyping this. So we wanted to find out - just how often does Trump do this? And we looked at rally speeches, interviews, social media posts just since 2022, when he was preparing for this campaign. And that's how we found more than 100 examples.
FADEL: More than a hundred examples - who exactly is he targeting?
DREISBACH: Well, at the top of the list are his political opponents. He says if he wins, on Day 1, he will appoint a special prosecutor to investigate President Joe Biden and Biden's family. He says Vice President Kamala Harris should be prosecuted. He's reposted calls for former President Barack Obama, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney to face military tribunals. And then he's also pushed for prosecutions and arrests of people involved in the criminal and civil cases against him - prosecutors, judges, even a courthouse staffer. And in one case, he floated the idea of prosecuting a member of the Georgia grand jury that indicted him for election interference.
FADEL: OK, so this goes well beyond just politicians, including private citizens, like this juror you just described, but also journalists. What has Trump said about them?
DREISBACH: Well, he said journalists who refuse to give up their sources should go to jail. He says CBS and NBC should be investigated and lose their broadcast licenses because he didn't like their news coverage. He's also attacked people who criticize or protest the Supreme Court. This is from a rally this September.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
DONALD TRUMP: These people should be put in jail. The way they talk about our judges and our justices, trying to get them to sway their vote.
FADEL: I mean, what you're describing, Tom, is pretty frightening. And all of this obviously raises the question - could former President Trump actually do this?
DREISBACH: Well, there's been a norm that's generally accepted for decades that the White House does not direct investigations by the Justice Department, but it is not the law. And at the end of the day, the president does control the Justice Department. Of course, there are guardrails. Judges can refuse to sign warrants. They can dismiss charges. But investigations alone, legal experts told me, can be terrifying - cost a ton of money in legal bills. And there's this concern that just the threat of a prosecution can make someone say, if opposing the president gets me investigated, is it really worth the risk?
FADEL: So a chilling effect there. What does your reporting tell you about whether Trump would actually take action on these threats?
DREISBACH: Yeah, an analysis from an NYU law professor found a dozen cases from Trump's first term where he pressured the Justice Department to investigate, and they did follow through. And I also talked to multiple people who said they're preparing for the worst case in case Trump wins. Stephanie Grisham was a press secretary in Trump's White House, but she now says he's unfit for office.
STEPHANIE GRISHAM: I just know that once he's in office, with no reason to worry about reelection and only the most fervent, loyal people surrounding him, that he will absolutely make sure his enemies pay for what he perceives to be their crimes.
DREISBACH: And Grisham told me she's already saving money, getting ducks in a row in case she's subjected to, say, an investigation or IRS audit. Meanwhile, a spokesperson for the Republican Party responded to our reporting by saying that Harris is the threat to democracy.
FADEL: That's NPR's Tom Dreisbach. Thanks so much for your reporting, Tom.
DREISBACH: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
