LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Israel's ousted defense minister, Yoav Gallant, says there's nothing more for the Israeli military to achieve in Gaza.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Gallant also says that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is responsible for holding up a cease-fire deal back in July - that's what Gallant said - a deal that could have ended the war and gotten the remaining hostages home. He told all of that to family members of hostages in a closed-door meeting on his last day in office.
FADEL: NPR's Kat Lonsdorf spoke with one of the family members in that meeting, and she joins us now. Good morning, Kat.
KAT LONSDORF, BYLINE: Hey. Good morning, Leila.
FADEL: So what did you hear about that meeting?
LONSDORF: Well, so Gallant was fired by Netanyahu on Tuesday of last week and basically given 48 hours to leave the position. So on his last day in office last Thursday, he invited some of the family members of Israelis who were taken hostage last October by Hamas to meet with him. Gallant has been the defense minister during this whole war in Gaza. I spoke with Gil Dickmann. He was in that meeting with Gallant. Gil's cousin, Carmel Gat, was taken hostage and later killed by Hamas in Gaza in August. Gil has been to many meetings like this that Gallant has held, but he told me that this one felt different, that it seemed like Gallant was finally able to speak freely.
FADEL: So he says it felt different. What did Gallant actually speak freely about?
LONSDORF: Well, basically, Gallant told them that the Israeli military had accomplished all it can in Gaza. Here's Gil.
GIL DICKMANN: What he said is that there's so much that you can do with force, and they've done it.
LONSDORF: He says Gallant also told them that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu is responsible for holding up a cease-fire deal in July. And this was specifically really heartbreaking for Gil to hear because his cousin, Carmel, could have still been alive if that cease-fire deal had gone through. We reached out to both Gallant and the prime minister's office for comment on this. Neither responded. But NPR did later obtain a recording of this meeting, and it matched what Gil Dickmann told us.
You know, I should also point out that since July, thousands of Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli military in Gaza, bringing the death toll up to more than 43,000, according to the Gaza Ministry of Health. And several more Israeli hostages have been confirmed dead, too.
FADEL: Yeah, I mean, the repercussions of continuing this war have been huge.
LONSDORF: Yeah.
FADEL: If Gallant wanted to end it, what does it mean now that he's no longer in the government?
LONSDORF: Many Israelis are worried about just that. They see Gallant as a big leader in this war. You know, thousands took to the streets to protest his firing, demanding a cease-fire. They see this as Netanyahu trying to get rid of anyone who disagrees with him. Many we've talked to feel as if their democracy is at stake. You know, and I want to mention here, too, even though they differ, both Gallant and Netanyahu are wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes in Gaza. Israel has challenged that.
FADEL: Now, over the weekend, Qatar suspended its role as mediator for a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, which it's been playing for months now - that mediator role.
LONSDORF: Yeah.
FADEL: Does this relate, if at all, to Gallant's firing?
LONSDORF: Well, Qatar says it made this decision about two weeks ago, so these aren't necessarily related. But Qatar said it's done mediating these talks until both sides are willing to come to the table with, quote, "the necessary seriousness" needed to actually come to an agreement, which kind of goes along with what Gallant said, that Netanyahu is using the war for his political gain and isn't serious about stopping it.
You know, Qatar and Egypt have openly blamed Netanyahu and his far-right government before for refusing to commit to talks and changing the terms of agreements that have been reached. Israel has been blaming Hamas. Meanwhile, dozens of Palestinians are being killed by Israeli strikes in Gaza every day. And the remaining 101 Israeli hostages, about a third of whom are confirmed to be dead, continue to languish there as well.
FADEL: That's NPR's Kat Lonsdorf in Tel Aviv. Thank you, Kat.
LONSDORF: Thanks, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
