SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Everyone seems to have a different role that made them fall in love with John Lithgow. It might be "Footloose" or "Shrek" or "3rd Rock From The Sun" or maybe "The World According To Garp" or "Harry And The Hendersons," and I can list nine more. Lithgow has given audiences so many memorable roles in over 50 years of acting. As he approaches 80, he's not slowing down. Just this year, he's appeared in the Hulu series, "The Old Man," the critically acclaimed movie "Conclave," and "Spellbound," an animated kids movie on Netflix. He joined NPR's Rachel Martin for Wild Card where guests get answers about lives drawn from a deck of cards. Lithgow told Rachel that despite his parents both being into theater, acting was not always his life's plan.
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RACHEL MARTIN: One, two or three.
JOHN LITHGOW: Oh, boy. One, on this occasion.
MARTIN: One on this occasion - what was a moment in your life when you could have chosen a different path?
LITHGOW: Oh, it was my entire childhood I had chosen a different path because right up until I was about 17 years old, I fully intended to be a painter. I was quite committed to it from as long as I can remember. Everybody praised me for my drawings, literally from first grade. And, you know, if ever I were asked any version of - what you want to be when you grow up? - it was always an artist.
MARTIN: Is that right?
LITHGOW: And I had great encouragement from my parents.
MARTIN: So they were not steering you in the direction of the theater or acting or anything?
LITHGOW: Not at all. They weren't discouraging me.
MARTIN: Yeah.
LITHGOW: Although, I do remember when I told my dad that I was auditioning for a Fulbright to study acting in earnest in London, his face fell. He's like, oh, my God, no. And I said, Dad, well, you know, you've produced all these Shakespeare festivals. You've even hired me to act. What did you expect me to want to do? And he said, well, I always thought that it would be a good idea for you to go to business school. And I said, what?
MARTIN: Oh, interesting. So it's not like he held up your artistic dreams.
LITHGOW: Yeah.
MARTIN: He was like, oh, I really thought you were going to be a painter.
LITHGOW: Yeah. And I said, what are you thinking? I would never go to business school. He said, well, as a theater manager, as a managing director or artistic director, I've always felt that my great failing was in the area of business.
MARTIN: Yeah.
LITHGOW: So...
MARTIN: Right. And I bet your dad was proud of you in the end.
LITHGOW: Oh, ultimately yes, of course, it's worked out just fine.
MARTIN: It worked out. It worked out. OK. One, two, three?
LITHGOW: Two, of course.
MARTIN: Two, of course - oh, I just love this question. What period of your life do you often daydream about?
LITHGOW: Daydream about? I think it's my early years in New York theater, the 1970s. I would say in any given year in the 1970s in New York, I probably was acting onstage on Broadway on about 300 of the 365 nights. I mean, I just went from one theater job to another and worked with...
MARTIN: It sounds exhausting, though.
LITHGOW: Oh, it was just - I was young.
MARTIN: Yeah.
LITHGOW: I got everywhere on a bicycle. I acted - God, I did a show in 1975 at Lincoln Center, "Trelawny of the 'Wells.'" And among the cast were Mary Beth Hurt and Sasha von Scherler, Mandy Patinkin in his first role and, in her first job out of Yale drama school, Meryl Streep.
MARTIN: Wow.
LITHGOW: We were all thick as thieves.
MARTIN: Yeah.
LITHGOW: And we would have big potluck suppers together. I guess, you know, there's your answer.
MARTIN: That's worthy of daydreaming. Yeah.
LITHGOW: Yeah. It was just...
MARTIN: Things felt limitless for you then.
LITHGOW: Yeah, things seemed...
MARTIN: Yeah.
LITHGOW: Even though it was really tough, and the town was dirty and dangerous and depressing in every way, except if you were a young actor, it was just electric.
MARTIN: Yeah.
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MARTIN: Three more cards - one, two or three.
LITHGOW: Three.
MARTIN: Do you think there's more to reality than we can see or touch?
LITHGOW: Oh, God. These questions, they're deep, philosophical questions.
MARTIN: I feel like when you say that, it's causing you great pain.
LITHGOW: I've just never been asked these questions before. It's kind of amazing. More to reality than we can see or touch - I have a pretty simple version of reality. You're immediately making me look around me. Like, what's real and what isn't? And everything I see is real. So that's the best I can do on that one.
MARTIN: Really?
LITHGOW: OK. All right, wait a minute. I am allowed to ask you that same question. So Rachel...
MARTIN: Yeah.
LITHGOW: ...I want to hear your answer to this 'cause I have no idea how to answer it.
MARTIN: I - so I think this is a question about death. I think it's a question about what happens to us when we die. That's what I think of when I think of this question.
LITHGOW: Wow.
MARTIN: I just feel - especially after a person dies who you're close to, I think there is a time - the time right after that happens or for the first couple of months - when you feel that person, at least that has been the case for me. And so that has made me open to the idea that there are things I don't understand and that there could be more to reality than I can see or touch.
LITHGOW: It's so interesting. My mind didn't go to that great demarcation between being alive and being dead, being alive and sensing reality everywhere and being dead and no longer existing. But I am very simplistic about that. I think of death as death. I don't think there's life after death or a soul after death. I can't believe I'm talking about these things. I've had three cancers in my life - first in 1988, 2004 and then only a couple of years ago. In every case, dealt with immediately and put an end to, you know?
But I'm almost glad that I had the shocking experience of being told you have a malignancy - to have realistically contemplated, oh, my God, this might really - I might die of this. I think it was a useful experience to have in terms of just putting your whole life into perspective. I just know it's coming. It's coming, and I think the best thing is to have a gracious ending. You know, I calculate my exit from any film or television or stage play, and I always want to have a good ending. Well, I want to have a good ending to my life, too.
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MARTIN: You can see John Lithgow now in "Spellbound" on Netflix and in the movie "Conclave." John, thank you. Thank you.
LITHGOW: Oh, Rachel, this is great - friends for life, friends for life.
DETROW: For more of that conversation with John Lithgow, follow NPR's Wild Card podcast.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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