MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
For years, going back to his first term in office, Donald Trump has promised this.
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DONALD TRUMP: And one other thing I'll be doing very early in the administration is closing up the Department of Education in Washington, D.C.
I want to close the Department of Education and move education back to the states, where it belongs.
And I'm going to close the Department of Education and move education back to the states. And we're going to do it fast.
KELLY: Eliminating the Department of Education is in line with the conservative blueprint for Trump's second term, called Project 2025, a document from which Trump has actively distanced himself. Shutting down the department does not sit well with traditional supporters like Randi Weingarten, head of the American Federation of Teachers.
RANDI WEINGARTEN: It completely takes away and abolishes this notion of opportunity for all and of knowledge for all.
KELLY: Believe it or not, the Education Department in its current form is only about four decades old. It was then-President Jimmy Carter, along with Congress, who elevated the department to a cabinet-level agency. Today, the department oversees everything from college student loans to aid for low-income public schools and special education. But shutting down the department - it's been a talking point for Republicans pretty much from the beginning. It was part of Ronald Reagan's plan to shrink the size of the federal government, something he talked about in his 1982 State of the Union Address.
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RONALD REAGAN: A budget plan I submit to you on February 8 will realize major savings by dismantling the Departments of Energy and Education and by eliminating ineffective subsidies for business.
KELLY: So can President-elect Trump eliminate the Department of Education? And if he succeeds, what would that mean for America's public schools? Here with some answers - NPR's Cory Turner. Welcome.
CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Hey, Mary Louise.
KELLY: Start right there. Can President Trump shut down the education department if he wants to do it?
TURNER: Not on his own, no. The Ed Department, as we heard, was created by Congress, a vote of Congress, and it can only be officially abolished by a vote of Congress. Yes, we know that Republicans won control of both the House and the Senate this time around. Even so, because the filibuster in the Senate, it will be very hard for Republicans to get any legislation passed without Democrats. Here's Max Eden of the Conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute.
MAX EDEN: It's really hard to see how you can do that without 60 votes in the Senate. And it's next to impossible to see how you get 60 votes on that anytime soon.
TURNER: And I put same question to Rachel Perera at the nonpartisan Brookings Institution. She agreed Republicans are going to need help to close the department.
RACHEL PERERA: They would need some Democratic senators, and that seems incredibly unlikely unless they get rid of the filibuster. I mean, that's a big question in my mind. But right now, current Senate rules - no.
TURNER: It's also worth pointing out, Mary Louise, that even if the department is somehow closed, many of the things that it does, like send money, as we heard, through Title I to low-income schools - well, those would not automatically be stopped even if the department was closed.
KELLY: Well, that's interesting. Stay there for a second. Why? Are those funds just on some kind of autopilot, or how's it work?
TURNER: Well, it's because they were each also created, like the department, by an act of Congress. And so the only way to change them or stop them is, again, through an act of Congress. In fact, the Title I money that I mentioned - that program was created by Congress years before the Education Department as it currently stands - years before it even existed. And the same was true with money that goes to support kids with disabilities. And I should also say, though, here, in all the conversations I've had, though, with folks about this idea, no one thinks that there's much interest these days in doing anything with those bedrock funding programs. Again, here's Max Eden.
EDEN: I could not imagine all of those funding streams, all those programs being cut. That, to me, is just beyond the pale of political imagination.
TURNER: And I think part of the reason that's so hard to imagine, Rachel Perera told me, is that programs like Title I enjoy strong bipartisan support.
PERERA: Some of the schools who rely the most on Title I are schools in poor, rural, white areas. And congressional Republicans have shown, time and time again that they are not interested in hurting their constituents in that way by undoing those funding sources.
TURNER: Now, I think what is much more likely going forward is to see the Trump administration really using regulations, which obviously don't require Congress, to make the department reflect its political values.
KELLY: OK, so now we get to the heart of it. What could incoming President Trump do, even if Congress is not on board with his plan to shut down the department altogether?
TURNER: Yeah. So let me give you one example. So Title IX is the federal law - again, passed by Congress - meant to prevent sex-based discrimination in schools that receive federal funding. Well, the Biden administration used the regulatory process to interpret that law to expand protections to include sexual orientation and gender identity. But this interpretation of federal law really infuriated many conservatives, and Trump has said he will walk it back on Day 1.
And that is something he can do. In fact, Title IX has been the subject of a kind of political ping-pong match for years. The Obama administration expanded protections using its own interpretation of the law, which then the first Trump administration rolled back, wrote their own version, their own interpretation of Title IX. Then came the Biden administration's interpretation. And now I think it's absolutely reasonable to expect the Trump administration to do the same. And we're just going to keep riding this Education Department regulatory roller coaster.
KELLY: Roller coaster does indeed sound like the apt term. NPR's Cory Turner. Thanks for your reporting.
TURNER: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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