JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Former President Trump visited Arlington National Cemetery on Monday, along with family members of troops killed in Afghanistan. They were there to mark the three-year anniversary of a deadly attack that claimed the lives of 13 U.S. troops and over 100 Afghans. But NPR has learned that, during the visit, there was an altercation between Trump campaign staff and an Arlington Cemetery official. NPR's Quil Lawrence joins us with the latest. Hey there.
QUIL LAWRENCE, BYLINE: Hi.
SUMMERS: So Quil, before we get to what's happened since we first reported this story, can you just tell us a bit more about the altercation itself?
LAWRENCE: Sure. Former President Trump took part in laying wreaths on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington, and that was filmed and photographed. But Arlington National Cemetery told NPR they were crystal clear that their rules did not allow an outside photographer to enter Section 60, where Iraq and Afghanistan vets are mostly buried. They said only cemetery staff could take photos there and then share them with the visitors.
A source with knowledge of the incident told NPR that when the Trump campaign went into that section, that an Arlington official tried to stop the campaign from bringing in an outside photographer. The source says two members of the campaign verbally abused and then pushed the cemetery official aside. At that point, the official decided not to escalate things out of respect for the Gold Star families.
SUMMERS: Well, Quil, I understand the Trump campaign denies all of this. Is that right?
LAWRENCE: Yes. Trump spokesman Steven Cheung confirmed that there was an incident with what he called an unidentified person he accused of having a mental health crisis and trying to prevent Trump from entering Section 60. The Trump campaign says they have video proving this, but so far they won't share it with NPR or any other media outlet. President Trump posted on social media an image of Gold Star families who thanked him and wrote that they had invited him to film in Section 60.
SUMMERS: OK, I'm hoping you can unpack this for us. Does that mean that the Trump campaign essentially had permission here?
LAWRENCE: No. That's still illegal. It's illegal to do anything political on the grounds of Arlington Cemetery. And this isn't just about following some bureaucratic rules. If you look at one of the photos that's going around with former President Trump and these family members giving a thumbs up and smiling in front of the tombstone for Staff Sgt. Darin Taylor Hoover with his family there, well, there are two other gravestones that are visible, and they're both Green Berets.
One of those is a Special Forces master sergeant with many combat tours, and he died by suicide. And someone close to his family confirmed to me that they did not give permission for that grave to be used in a political ad or anything like that. This family is intensely private about what is still a very painful loss. And I asked the Trump campaign if they requested permission to use these other grave sites. I haven't heard back. But that's why Arlington has these rules. These officials know what's at stake.
SUMMERS: What else have you heard, if anything, from cemetery officials?
LAWRENCE: Well, nothing. They've told NPR and other media outlets that they're no longer going to ask - answer any questions about this because they want to protect the identity of the official who confronted the Trump campaign. But I should say, you know, these staff are quite used to guiding visitors of all kinds around what they consider hallowed ground. And they're used to explaining this protocol. They deal with tourists from all over the world. They deal with big troops of teenagers on school trips. They deal with misbehaving scout troops.
And they even have to navigate, you know, how do you talk with a combat veteran who's come there, and he wants to pour out a beer and a shot on his fallen buddy's grave? How do you navigate that situation? So they're used to this. They're - they've got a great reputation at being very good at finessing these delicate situations with, oftentimes, grieving families. But our source told me that they have never seen this level of disrespectful behavior at Arlington, ever.
SUMMERS: NPR's Quil Lawrence. Quil, thanks.
LAWRENCE: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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