AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Vice President Kamala Harris is making a final push to win over some very unlikely supporters - Republicans. And to do that, she's hitting the campaign trail with prominent GOP figures, like former Congresswoman Liz Cheney.
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LIZ CHENEY: You have to choose in this race between someone who has been faithful to the Constitution - who will be faithful - and Donald Trump.
CHANG: NPR correspondents Sarah McCammon and Susan Davis have been reporting on these efforts and join us now. Hey to both of you.
SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
SARAH MCCAMMON, BYLINE: Hi there.
CHANG: Hi. OK, Sarah, let's start with you. What exactly is the case that the campaign is making here?
MCCAMMON: So the phrase I've been hearing over and over again for months as I've been covering these efforts to win over Republicans for Harris' campaign is permission structure. And, you know, this is predicated on the idea that there are some voters out there who see themselves as conservative or Republican, may have consistently voted for Republicans in the past, but are looking for a reason and permission to vote differently this time around, especially after January 6. And the message to these voters has been heavily focused on the idea of protecting democracy, on the idea that Trump poses a grave threat to American institutions. And to do that, they have relied on trusted messengers to make that case, like former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who we just heard.
CHANG: Right. And it's not just Cheney who's helping them, right?
MCCAMMON: Right. Just this week, local Republican officials in Wisconsin endorsed Harris, as did former Michigan Republican Congressman Fred Upton. Plus, she's been appearing with dozens of former Republicans who've endorsed her, including former members of Congress and former Trump administration officials. And these Republican supporters of Harris will say things like, look, we can argue about things like tax brackets later on. The objective now is to keep Trump from being elected again.
Vice President Harris' campaign has announced that she will be making her closing arguments to voters next week, on Tuesday, at The Ellipse in D.C., an event that's intended to remind voters about January 6.
CHANG: Right. And Sue, you were in Pennsylvania this week, so I'm wondering, how was that messaging that Sarah is talking about right now resonating with voters there?
DAVIS: Well first, Ailsa, consider a little math. Pennsylvania is one of those states where Democrats think they can make an appeal here because earlier this year, nearly 160,000 Republicans - it was a closed primary - voted for South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley in the Republican primary. And that was well after she had dropped out of the race.
CHANG: Huh.
DAVIS: And this is a state that Joe Biden won in 2020 with about 80,000 votes.
CHANG: Yeah.
DAVIS: But I will tell you, these voters are hard to find. I was at that Cheney event earlier in the week. I spoke to a handful of voters. They said, oh, I'm an independent, but when I pressed them, they had a history of voting consistently Democratic. That's not exactly the swing voter that Kamala Harris is looking for. I also spent time knocking doors with Americans for Prosperity. That's a conservative group that backed Haley in the primary and has not endorsed Trump and is focused on down-ballot turnout. Every voter we came across was voting straight Republican ticket.
CHANG: OK. Well then, did you find any swing voters?
DAVIS: OK, they do exist. We did find one.
CHANG: (Laughter) OK. One?
DAVIS: (Laughter) Our colleagues at WQLN in Erie, Pennsylvania, spoke to Joshua McGhee. He's 22, he's a graduate student. He voted for Trump in 2020, and he said he's just recently made up his mind after attending a women's rally for abortion rights.
JOSHUA MCGHEE: I didn't truly understand until after that how much women will suffer at the hands of Donald Trump if he is elected in 2024. And, you know, I know for certain that Kamala Harris will support women - and support everyone, for that matter. And I know Donald Trump does not support people that go against him.
DAVIS: Young, male, 2020 Republican voter - exactly the type of margin the Harris campaign is looking to chip away at.
CHANG: Sure. OK. Well, Sarah, I am curious about the other side of things. Is the Trump campaign trying to poach Democratic voters? And if so, like, who are those people?
MCCAMMON: You know, the Trump campaign isn't doing what the Harris campaign is doing. They're not running some kind of concerted effort to appeal to the other party. But there is polling that suggests that this is happening organically, with growing support for Trump among Black and Latino men, for instance. So Trump could also benefit from some small measure of Democratic crossover too, from traditional Democratic voting blocs.
The Trump campaign all along has been focused on turning out its base. There's been no real effort to appeal to political centrists, aside from a couple of comments Trump has made that appeared to try to soften his stance on opposition to abortion. But for the most part, he has appealed to his base. The campaign has projected confidence that those Nikki Haley primary voters that Sue mentioned will ultimately come home and vote for the Republican nominee. And Haley herself has, of course, endorsed Trump, though she hasn't campaigned for him much beyond that.
DAVIS: And look, there's a reason that the Trump campaign might be confident that Harris might not be able to eat too much into his margins. When the country's living through a super-charged, polarized election environment just like this one, the crossover vote is going to be pretty minimal. I spoke to Lee Miringoff. He's the polling director at Marist College, which is NPR's polling partner. And he said it's pretty hard for one party to pick up support in enemy territory.
LEE MIRINGOFF: And having said that, anything you pick up across party lines is - in a close race, could be a huge factor. So and on the one hand, don't look for double-digit pickups across party lines, but if you're running 7- or 8%, I mean, that's, like, huge, potentially.
DAVIS: And if this race is coming down to tight margins in those seven swing states - and all directions point to that - then those tiny movements for either campaign could have a major impact.
CHANG: Indeed. That is NPR's Susan Davis and Sarah McCammon. Thanks to both of you.
DAVIS: You're welcome.
MCCAMMON: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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