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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Good morning. We are now on the record. The time is 10:05 a.m. on February 8, 2021.
ADRIAN MA, HOST:
Just a few years ago, a group of lawyers got together on a video conference to question a witness, one of the most powerful people in the city of Los Angeles.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Sir, state your full name, and spell it, please.
ERIC GARCETTI: Eric with a C, Michael - M-I-C-H-A-E-L - Garcetti - G-A-R-C-E-T-T-I.
MA: Now, back then, Eric Garcetti had been mayor of Los Angeles for almost eight years. He'd been co-chair of Joe Biden's 2020 presidential campaign and inauguration. And he was a rising star in the Democratic Party. But now he was being questioned under oath about allegations of sexual harassment inside Los Angeles City Hall. Now, Garcetti himself was not being accused of harassment, but he was accused of witnessing and enabling harassment by a close friend and top political adviser for years.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: You're under oath. And even though you're the mayor of Los Angeles, penalty of perjury does attach to your testimony today. You understand that?
GARCETTI: Of course.
MA: When you're under oath, you got to tell the truth, right? But whether Garcetti actually did tell the whole truth is an important question. For one thing, lying under oath is a crime. It's called perjury. But also, in the wake of this lawsuit, Eric Garcetti went from being the mayor of the second-biggest city in the country to part of the Biden-Harris administration. And with the full backing of the White House, he became U.S. ambassador to India, a country that right now is dealing with serious gender-based violence and harassment problems.
So did Eric Garcetti lie under oath to protect his top adviser? To try and answer that question, NPR investigative correspondent Tom Dreisbach has been digging into never-before-seen video, documents and internal emails. He joins us now to share what he found. And before we get going, I'll just note that this conversation includes discussions of sexual harassment. Tom, thanks so much for joining us.
TOM DREISBACH, BYLINE: Thanks for having me, Adrian.
MA: So, Tom, people in California might be familiar with Eric Garcetti, but for those who aren't, just give us a bit of background on him.
DREISBACH: Yeah. So he's a longtime LA Democrat, really impressive looking resume. He's a Rhodes Scholar, served in the Navy Reserves, president of LA City Council before becoming a two-term mayor of Los Angeles. And as part of his political rise, he actually talked a lot about fighting sexual harassment. Like, here he is at the LA Women's March.
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GARCETTI: Stop dismissing locker room talk. It ain't locker room talk.
DREISBACH: He had ambitions to become president of the United States but ultimately did not run in 2020. He became a co-chair of the Biden campaign instead, actually helped pick Kamala Harris as the vice presidential running mate. And then the Biden team picked him to be ambassador to India.
MA: So Garcetti, clearly a rising star in the Democratic Party, but he has an adviser who gets accused of sexual harassment. Tell us about that person.
DREISBACH: Yeah. His name is Rick Jacobs. He comes from the world of both business and politics, actually worked for the oil billionaire Armand Hammer at one point, did investments in Russia before getting into liberal activism politics. He and Garcetti actually met back in 2003 on the Howard Dean campaign for president back then. They became friends. And as Garcetti is rising politically, Jacobs was his very close adviser. They helped raise money together. Jacobs raised millions for his mayoral campaigns. And throughout these two decades that they were close, though, people had serious concerns about Jacobs' behavior.
MA: Tell us about that. Like, what kind of concerns were people bringing up?
DREISBACH: Yeah. Let me say up front, Jacobs has denied ever sexually harassing anyone. He has denied all wrongdoing. He also did not respond to any of our questions for this story. When I called him, he hung up the phone.
Before Garcetti hired Jacobs, though, he had this reputation for touching and forcibly kissing people on the lips without their consent. That's according to testimony, a Senate investigation, our own reporting and interviews. I spoke about this with Yashar Ali. He's now a freelance journalist big on social media, but he used to work as a fundraiser in Democratic politics. And he remembers going to a party with Jacobs in the mid-2000s.
YASHAR ALI: I remember him walking towards me with his two hands out and grabbing my face and kissing me forcibly on the lips - two times.
ALI: Two times in a row, like in the same moment? Or are you talking about different...
ALI: In the same moment.
DREISBACH: How did you react? How did you feel?
ALI: I was frozen. It made me very, very uncomfortable. And once he did that, and I didn't object to it, he continued. But not objecting to something is not consent. It's just not objecting.
DREISBACH: Now, Ali and Jacobs are both gay. Ali said that Jacobs went on to do this to him about a dozen times over the years. Jacobs does not dispute this. He claims it was all part of a cutesy little game - those are his words - between him and Ali. But Ali said that explanation is absurd and false.
MA: And what about Jacobs' behavior at City Hall?
DREISBACH: Yeah. Several current and former City Hall staffers testified that Jacobs also made crude sexual jokes, touching people without their consent at City Hall. Naomi Seligman served as one of Garcetti's communications directors, and she told me this story about Jacobs, who had an assistant who was Asian American at the time.
NAOMI SELIGMAN: And I remember being in the first meeting with Rick's kind of direct staff, and he's just like, Chinaman, where are you? And he would scream Chinaman or China boy down the hall. And I thought, is this like a fever dream? Like, what's going on here? Like, why is this guy screaming racist terms down the hall?
DREISBACH: And, by the way, this is also not in dispute. Jacobs testified that he later apologized to his assistant for making those comments. Seligman also testified that Jacobs kissed her forcibly on the lips. Jacobs does deny that. A digital director at City Hall named Paul Kadzielski (ph) testified that Jacobs made sexual jokes and massaged and hugged him at work without his consent as well.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: So, like, the hugs you received from Rick Jacobs, would you describe them as tight hugs?
PAUL KADZIELSKI: Yes, they were tight.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Did they make you uncomfortable?
KADZIELSKI: Yes.
MA: So this all begs the question. Did the mayor - did Eric Garcetti know this was happening?
DREISBACH: Well, what brought all of this to light was a lawsuit by an LAPD officer who was on the mayor's protective detail, basically the bodyguards. He said that Jacobs harassed him for years, often in front of Garcetti and this officer. His name is Matthew Garza. He filed this lawsuit in 2020 against the city of LA and specifically blamed Garcetti.
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MATTHEW GARZA: Being that he is the mayor of Los Angeles, and he's responsible for coming up with these sexual harassment policies, by him laughing at some of these comments that were made by Rick Jacobs, I personally take that as a form of sexual harassment.
DREISBACH: Garcetti denied everything Garza testified to and alleged. Now, initially, after the lawsuit was filed, Garcetti said the city would commission an investigation, but both publicly and privately, he stood by Jacobs and said they would keep working together.
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GARCETTI: As I said from the beginning of this, this is something unequivocally that I did not witness, secondarily, that it deserves to have the support and the investigation. But fundamentally, this is something that should take a process forward but shouldn't keep somebody who has been a committed public servant from being able to continue to serve our community and our world.
DREISBACH: After months and more accusations came out, Garcetti ultimately did cut off ties with Jacobs, and he said he was deeply saddened by those allegations.
MA: So, Tom, what did you find about whether Garcetti knew and whether he told the truth?
DREISBACH: Well, two former communications directors for Garcetti told me on the record they believe Garcetti was aware of Jacobs' alleged behavior before the lawsuit and that he lied under oath. One key piece of evidence is this group photo that came out during the case. It's from an event. You see Eric Garcetti in the middle, smiling, two big thumbs up. On the left is Jacobs, and Jacobs is putting his hand in front of the crotch of a man next to him, a lobbyist.
MA: Wait. So this is in front of Eric Garcetti as this is happening?
DREISBACH: Yes. Garcetti, however, is not looking at what is happening, and it's unclear if he saw it himself. He says he didn't. And here's what former Communications Director Naomi Seligman told me about it.
SELIGMAN: Rick felt so comfortable displaying that kind of behavior in front of Eric Garcetti that he put his hand over a man's penis in a photo with Eric Garcetti inches from him. That shows how comfortable Jacobs was, that there wouldn't be an issue if they captured that.
DREISBACH: Now, Garcetti insists he did not see this gesture and that he was looking the other way. And he says it's inaccurate to suggest that this photo means Jacobs acted inappropriately in front of him. And then I should say there's another key piece of testimony. Before the scandal broke, Garcetti allegedly said, I can't believe we didn't get sued over Rick Jacobs' behavior. He was asked about that in his own deposition.
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GARCETTI: No, I have never said that to anybody, publicly or privately.
DREISBACH: Now, the CEO of the Mayor's Fund for Los Angeles is a guy named Jeremy Bernard, and he testified that Garcetti did say this to him. And I showed Bernard Garcetti's deposition.
Does that match your memory?
JEREMY BERNARD: Not at all. I heard it, and I heard him say it numerous times.
DREISBACH: Do you think he was lying, based on everything you've seen?
BERNARD: I find it hard to believe that he doesn't remember it.
DREISBACH: Garcetti still denies ever saying this. And there's another striking moment from Garcetti's testimony I want to play.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: Did Jacobs tell jokes very often?
GARCETTI: I can recall him laughing at jokes, but I can't recall him telling a joke, no.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: Did he ever tell any jokes dealing with men's body parts that you recall?
GARCETTI: In my presence, no.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: And you would have never laughed at...
GARCETTI: I would have...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: If you never heard it, you never laughed, right?
GARCETTI: I would have - not only did I not laugh, I did not hear it. I did not laugh. Had I heard it, I would not have laughed, and I would have taken action.
DREISBACH: Several people who know Jacobs told me they do not find it credible that Garcetti could not recall him ever telling a joke over the course of nearly two decades. Another communications director for Garcetti, Suzi Emmerling, told me she was at a meeting when Jacobs made a crude sexual joke in front of the mayor, and they all laughed about it.
Do you think the mayor is lying?
SUZI EMMERLING: Absolutely.
DREISBACH: Garcetti denied that that ever happened.
MA: So there was this lawsuit, and there are all these allegations that Garcetti lied about what he knew, which he denies. But then he goes to work for the Biden-Harris administration. They nominate him to be the ambassador to India. What do they say about all this?
DREISBACH: The White House has completely stood by Garcetti. They claim the allegations against him were debunked. Senate Republicans released a report with testimony and eyewitnesses who said they saw even more inappropriate behavior - racist comments, groping, crude sexual comments. The White House dismissed that investigation as a partisan hit job, and they point to an investigation from the city of LA, which cleared Jacobs and Garcetti. But that investigation did not interview several key witnesses.
MA: You know, Tom, one thing this makes me wonder about is, like, the Biden-Harris administration and the Democrats have publicly supported the #MeToo movement and policies against harassment. Like, how do you think about these allegations in that context?
DREISBACH: Yeah. I mean, I've been covering these types of harassment cases and the fallout in Democratic politics for a few years now. And Democrats tell me, look, the leader of the Republican Party is Donald Trump. He's been found liable for sexual abuse and for defamation by a jury in New York. That's on top of a history of crass comments like the "Access Hollywood" tape, accusations of harassment and assault, which Trump denies. So it's not like this is a unique issue to Democrats. It's an issue in every industry in this country. But I talked about this with Julie Roginsky. She's a longtime Democratic consultant. She also co-founded an anti-harassment group called Lift Our Voices.
JULIE ROGINSKY: If you're going to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. And way too often, we as Democrats talk a very good game about these issues, about supporting survivors. And yet, when it comes to us personally, we don't do what it takes to support them.
MA: Just to backpedal for a second. What about the allegations from that lawsuit brought by the LAPD officer?
DREISBACH: Well, after Garcetti was confirmed as ambassador, the city decided to settle the lawsuit. They paid him $1.8 million without admitting wrongdoing. I asked Garcetti about this. He would not agree to an interview. But he wrote in an email that he completely stands by his testimony. He said he was saddened by the allegations, although he said it all came out as part of a campaign to damage his political career. And even though the legal case ripped his staff apart, revealed painful secrets, he thought the case should have kept going. He told me, I wish it had gone to trial.
MA: So, Tom, after all of your reporting, I just can't help but ask you, like, what do you think happened?
DREISBACH: Well, I think it's important for people to look at the evidence that we're gathering and that we're making public, in some cases for the first time, and come to their own conclusion. But I would say you have to really take seriously these type of allegations when they come from so many people so close to this administration.
MA: Tom Dreisbach, NPR investigative correspondent. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us.
DREISBACH: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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